Edward J. Watts: Dissecting the Rhetoric of Decline

“But one of the dangers is it’s very easy when there is change that makes someone uncomfortable to immediately say that this is a society that’s in decline and to blame somebody for causing it.”

On July 19th, Merion West’s Johanna Leo spoke with Edward J. Watts, who holds a Ph.D. in History from Yale University and is currently a professor in the University of California, San Diego’s Department of History. In this interview, Dr. Watts discusses his latest book, The Eternal Decline and Fall of Rome, which is to be released next month by Oxford University Press. In The Eternal Decline and Fall of Rome, Dr. Watts describes and analyzes the idea of decline and renewal, both in ancient Rome and throughout time. He also closely dissects the political rhetoric that has prevailed when these phenomena have presented themselves. In this discussion, Dr. Watts and Ms. Leo discuss the political and social consequences that can result from this rhetoric, the relevance of narratives about decline and renewal in current American politics, and how to properly address decline when it, in fact, might exist.

First off, thank you for joining me for this interview, Dr. Watts. In your book, you—like the title says—explore the decline and the fall of Rome, as well as how this pattern has played out throughout history. It is a good starting point for analyzing the ideas of decline and renewal throughout time and the rhetoric that can accompany them. You set up this premise from the beginning—for example, when you talk about how a prosperous society defends and repairs itself and how, “These responses, renewals, and restorations need not be destructive.” So I wanted to ask you to talk more about this idea.

I think that it’s important to understand that decline and deterioration are real. In Roman history, historians actually struggle with how much of that they want to acknowledge. But I think we have to acknowledge that it is real: Societies do sometimes get worse. What’s important is to understand, first of all, how real that decline is. And then, second, to understand why it’s happening. One of the immediate reactions I think that people have is a sort of negative reaction to change; just because something is different doesn’t mean it’s worse, but it’s possible to describe change as decline simply because you see it as something that’s different. And what I think we see—when a society is functioning well—is there’s a really careful analysis of what kind of change is happening, an assessment of whether that change is positive or negative, and what implications it has.